In this programme, we’ll be talking about disagreeing.
在这个节目中，我们将讨论不同意。
Rob(罗伯)
No, we won’t!
不，我们不会！
Sam(山姆)
I think we will, Rob. We’re discussing the following: ‘Is it good to disagree?’.
我想我们会的，罗伯。我们正在讨论以下问题：“不同意是好事吗？”
Rob(罗伯)
I know, but I feel better for having that little disagreement – so that proves it is good to disagree!
我知道，但我因为有一点分歧而感觉更好 —— 所以这证明不同意是件好事！
Sam(山姆)
Well, I hate to disagree, but I think we should explore this subject a little further first in the next six minutes…
好吧，我不想不同意，但我认为我们应该在接下来的六分钟内先进一步探讨这个主题......
Rob(罗伯)
Err, shouldn’t that be five minutes?
呃，这不应该是五分钟吗？
Sam(山姆)
Rob, you are being pedantic – focussing too much on the small details or formal rules. Maybe we should agree to disagree and move onto the quiz question I like to set you every week.
OK. So, do you know which spiritual leader is famous for saying “Disagreement is something normal”? Is it… a) Pope Francis; b) The XX&XX, or c) Ravi Shankar.
还行。那么，你知道哪位精神领袖以“分歧是正常的事情”而闻名吗？是吗。。。a） 教皇方济各；b） XX&XX，或 c） Ravi Shankar。
Rob(罗伯)
That’s tricky so I’ll have a guess and say b) the Dalai Lama.
这很棘手，所以我会猜测一下，然后说b）达赖喇嘛。
Sam(山姆)
OK, I'll let you know if that was correct at the end of the programme. But whoever said ‘disagreement is something normal’ is probably right. I’m sure we all disagree with someone about something – don’t we, Rob?
No… just joking! Of course disagreeing is normal – it would be boring if we agreed about everything. However, I guess agreement, on some things, may have prevented a few wars.
Indeed, but it is a fascinating subject and it’s something the BBC Radio 4 programme ‘A Guide to Disagreeing Better’ looked at. I think we should hear about how NOT to disagree first. This is couples' therapist, author and speaker Esther Perel, who knows a thing or two about that…
确实如此，但这是一个引人入胜的话题，也是 BBC Radio 4 节目“更好地不同意指南”所关注的。我认为我们应该先听听如何不反对。这是夫妻治疗师、作家和演讲者埃丝特·佩雷尔，她对此略知一二......
Esther Perel , therapist(埃丝特·佩雷尔 ， 治疗师)
In a battle, you position yourself in a hierarchy - one is on top of the other, and then there is arguing that comes with a contempt in which it's not just that I don't accept your point of view, is that, I actually really think you’re a lesser human being.
Right, so Esther explains that bad disagreement is a battle – one person tries to take a higher position in the hierarchy. A hierarchy is a way of organising people according to their importance.
So, a disagreement doesn’t go well if one person thinks they’re more important than someone else. And according to Esther, things also don’t go well if someone has contempt, which is a dislike or lack of respect for someone or something.
And contempt in a bad disagreement can be more than just not liking somebody’s point of view – their perspective on something – it could be thinking someone is a lesser human being.
Ouch! That’s not nice. Let’s think more now about good disagreement. The BBC podcast 'Seriously' has listed some tips for disagreeing better, including not aiming for the middle ground – another way of saying 'compromising'.
It also suggests speaking truthfully, listening intently – that means giving all your attention to what’s being said - and aiming for empathy. But not feeling at the end of a disagreement that you have to agree!
I agree - and I’m sure former British politician Douglas Alexander would too. He presented the programme ‘A Guide to Disagreeing Better’ and explained why he thought disagreeing is a good thing…
A couple of decades I spent as an elected politician convinced me that disagreement is necessary if society is to progress and a society that values civility over justice and truth would simply be a recipe for stagnation. But honest conversations involve listening intently as well as speaking truthfully.
The thoughts of Douglas Alexander there, who, through his work as a politician, is convinced that disagreement is a good thing. He says we shouldn’t just follow the values of civility – that means polite behaviour. It’s important to challenge and question thoughts and ideas – not just be polite and accept them!
Yes, and if we don’t challenge things and search for truth and justice, he feels it would lead to stagnation – staying the same and not developing. The verb form is ‘to stagnate’.
But, he does say that when we discuss things and disagree we must be honest, listen to the other person intently, and speak truthfully. But I would add that this should be done politely and with respect.
Well, Sam, I’ve been listening to you intently, and if I’m honest, I think it’s about time you gave me the answer to today’s question.
好吧，山姆，我一直在专心致志地听你说话，老实说，我认为是时候让你回答今天的问题了。
Sam(山姆)
We can agree on that, Rob! So, earlier I asked you if you knew which spiritual leader is famous for saying “Disagreement is something normal”? Is it… a) Pope Francis; b) The Dalai Lama, or c) Ravi Shankar And, Rob, what did you say?
Of course. First of all, I was accused of being pedantic - focussing too much on the small details or formal rules. Then we mentioned hierarchy - this is a way of organising people according to their importance.
Contempt is a dislike or lack of respect for something or someone.
蔑视是对某事或某人的厌恶或缺乏尊重。
Rob(罗伯)
A point of view describes someone’s perspective on something. Your point of view might be different from my point of view.
观点描述了某人对某事的看法。你的观点可能与我的观点不同。
Sam(山姆)
Indeed. And we also mentioned civility, which means polite behaviour.
事实上。我们还提到了礼貌，这意味着礼貌的行为。
Rob(罗伯)
And stagnation means staying the same and not developing. Would you agree, Sam?
停滞意味着保持不变，不发展。你同意吗，山姆？
Sam(山姆)
You are right, Rob – and that brings us to the end of our discussion about disagreeing! Don’t forget you can find lots more learning English materials on our website at bbclearningenglish.com, on social media and on our app. Please join us again next time. Bye bye.
/1 
