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Neil(尼尔)

I’m Neil.

我是尼尔。

Georgina(乔治娜)

And I’m Georgina.

我是乔治娜。

Neil(尼尔)

After working together at BBC Learning English for many years, Georgina, you and I have a good working relationship, don’t we?

在BBC学习英语工作多年后，Georgina，你和我有很好的工作关系，不是吗？

Georgina(乔治娜)

Sure, I think we make a great team!

当然，我认为我们是一个伟大的团队！

Neil(尼尔)

But have you ever had a boss who you just couldn’t work with?

但是你有没有遇到过一个你无法共事的老板？

Georgina(乔治娜)

Oh, you mean a bad boss – someone you just can’t get on with no matter how hard you try. Yes, I’ve had one or two over the years – not you of course, Neil!

哦，你是说一个糟糕的老板 —— 无论你多么努力，你都无法相处的人。是的，这些年来我有过一两个 —— 当然不是你，尼尔！

Neil(尼尔)

I'm glad to hear it, Georgina! Often this happens because workers feel they aren’t listened to by managers. Or it might be because most companies are hierarchies - systems of organising people according to their level of importance.

我很高兴听到它，乔治娜！这种情况的发生通常是因为员工觉得经理没有倾听他们的意见。或者可能是因为大多数公司都是等级制度 —— 根据人员的重要性级别组织人员的系统。

Georgina(乔治娜)

Managers on top, workers down below.

经理在上面，工人在下面。

Neil(尼尔)

But in this programme we hear from companies who’ve got rid of managers and say it has helped them do a better job, made them happier and saved money.

但是在这个计划中，我们听到那些摆脱经理的公司说，这帮助他们做得更好，让他们更快乐，省钱。

Georgina(乔治娜)

We’ll meet a self-managing company which isn’t hierarchical and has no boss. And of course we’ll be learning some new vocabulary along the way.

我们将遇到一家自我管理的公司，它没有等级制度，也没有老板。当然，在此过程中，我们会学习一些新词汇。

Neil(尼尔)

But first, today’s quiz question. One of the biggest problems in hierarchies is the excess cost of management and bureaucracy. But how much is that estimated to cost the US economy every year? Is it: a) 3 million dollars?; b) 3 billion dollars? or c) 3 trillion dollars?

但首先，今天的测验问题。等级制度中最大的问题之一是管理和官僚主义的过度成本。但据估计，这每年会给美国经济带来多少损失？是：a）300万美元？b） 30亿美元？或 c） 3 万亿美元？

Georgina(乔治娜)

I’ll say c) 3 trillion dollars – that’s one followed by twelve zeros - a lot of money!

我会说 c） 3 万亿美元 —— 那是 1 后面跟着 12 个零 —— 很多钱！

Neil(尼尔)

OK, Georgina, we’ll find out later if you’re right. Now, one of the first companies to experiment successfully with self-management was Californian tomato grower Morning Star. Here’s one of their employees, Doug Kirkpatrick, talking to Dina Newman for the BBC World Service programme, People Fixing the World:

好的，乔治娜，如果你是对的，我们稍后会知道的。现在，最早成功尝试自我管理的公司之一是加州番茄种植者晨星。这是他们的一位员工道格·柯克帕特里克与迪娜·纽曼在BBC世界服务节目《人们修复世界》中的对话：

Doug Kirkpatrick(道格·柯克帕特里克)

The first principle was that human beings should not use force or coercion against other human beings. And the second principle was that people should keep the commitments they make to each other and so we adopted them as pretty much the entire governance of the enterprise.

第一项原则是，人类不应对其他人使用武力或胁迫。第二个原则是，人们应该信守对彼此的承诺，因此我们几乎将其作为企业的整个治理。

Georgina(乔治娜)

Because Morning Star has no bosses, decisions are made by all employees equally without coercion – the use of force to persuade someone to do something they do not want to do.

因为晨星没有老板，所以所有员工都平等地做出决定，没有胁迫 —— 使用武力说服某人做他们不想做的事情。

Neil(尼尔)

As self-managers, employees can’t tell other employees what to do. Everything is based on requesting someone to act and them responding.

作为自我管理者，员工不能告诉其他员工该做什么。一切都基于要求某人采取行动并做出回应。

Georgina(乔治娜)

This motivates and empowers workers but also means they must keep their commitments - promises or firm decisions to do something when requested.

这激励和赋予了工人权力，但也意味着他们必须信守承诺 —— 承诺或坚定地决定在被要求时做某事。

Neil(尼尔)

This way of working is great for some – they feel listened to and have a voice in how the company is run. Georgina But Dina questions whether this is true for everybody working at Morning Star:

这种工作方式对一些人来说很棒 —— 他们觉得自己被倾听了，对公司的运营方式有发言权。乔治娜：但迪娜质疑这是否适用于在晨星工作的每个人：

Dina Newman(迪娜·纽曼)

Would it be true to say that a self-managed company like yours empowers people who are already very good and it leaves behind those who are not so good?

难道说像你这样的自我管理公司赋予了已经非常优秀的人权力，而把那些不那么优秀的人抛在了后面，这是真的吗？

Doug Kirkpatrick(道格·柯克帕特里克)

I’m not sure I accept the phrase ‘left behind’. There are some people who take full advantage of this environment; others take less advantage but they do benefit because their voice is respected, when they do propose something it must be listened to, they are not subject to force and coercion and if they don’t act according to their commitments they can be held accountable by anyone.

我不确定我是否接受“落后”这个词。有些人充分利用了这种环境；其他人占的便宜较少，但他们确实受益，因为他们的声音受到尊重，当他们提出必须倾听的东西时，他们不受武力和胁迫，如果他们不按照他们的承诺行事，他们可以被任何人追究责任。

Neil(尼尔)

Having no bosses sounds great, but the extra responsibility can create more work and stress. Different workers respond to this in different ways and some employees may be left behind - remain at a lower level than others because they are not as quick to develop.

没有老板听起来很棒，但额外的责任会带来更多的工作和压力。不同的员工以不同的方式对此做出反应，一些员工可能会被抛在后面 —— 因为他们的发展速度不如其他人。

Georgina(乔治娜)

However other workers enjoy managing themselves and take full advantage of the system - make good use of the opportunity to improve and achieve their goals.

然而，其他工人喜欢管理自己并充分利用系统 —— 充分利用机会来改进和实现他们的目标。

Neil(尼尔)

No matter whether employees are good self-managers or not, ultimately they are held accountable for their work performance – asked to accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions.

无论员工是否是优秀的自我管理者，最终他们都要对自己的工作表现负责 —— 被要求为自己行为的后果承担责任。

Georgina(乔治娜)

So, although having no boss sounds good, if things go wrong, there’s no-one to blame but yourself!

所以，虽然没有老板听起来不错，但如果出了问题，除了你自己，没有人可以责怪！

Neil(尼尔)

So maybe we do need those managers after all – which reminds me of our quiz question.

因此，也许我们确实需要这些经理 —— 这让我想起了我们的测验问题。

Georgina(乔治娜)

You asked me to estimate how much the US economy loses in excess bureaucracy and managerial costs every year.

你让我估计美国经济每年因过度的官僚主义和管理成本而损失多少。

Neil(尼尔)

And you said? ; Georgina c) 3 trillion dollars.

你说？；乔治娜 c） 3 万亿美元。

Neil(尼尔)

Which was absolutely right! Well done!

这是绝对正确的！干的好！

Georgina(乔治娜)

And the cost keeps rising because, of course, the more managers there are, the more managers you need to manage the managers!

而且成本不断上升，因为，当然，经理越多，你需要管理经理的经理就越多！

Neil(尼尔)

Today we’ve been looking at the world of self-management - companies run without bosses, which, unlike most businesses, are not based on a hierarchy – system of organising people according to their level of importance.

今天，我们一直在研究自我管理的世界 —— 没有老板的公司，与大多数企业不同，它不是基于等级制度 —— 根据人员的重要性级别组织人员的系统。

Georgina(乔治娜)

Instead companies like San Francisco’s Morning Star allow employees to make their own commitments – promises to act, rather than using coercion – or forceful persuasion – to get results.

相反，像旧金山晨星这样的公司允许员工做出自己的承诺 —— 承诺采取行动，而不是使用胁迫或强行说服 —— 来获得结果。

Neil(尼尔)

Many employees react positively to this working environment and take full advantage of it - make good use of the opportunity to progress or achieve their goals.

许多员工对这种工作环境反应积极，并充分利用它 —— 充分利用机会取得进步或实现他们的目标。

Georgina(乔治娜)

However, there is a risk that others who are more comfortable being managed may get left behind - remain at a lower level than others because they are not as quick to improve and adapt.

然而，存在一种风险，即其他更愿意被管理的人可能会被抛在后面 —— 因为他们没有那么快地改进和适应，所以仍然处于比其他人更低的水平。

Neil(尼尔)

But whatever their job role or feelings about self-management, all workers are held accountable – asked to accept responsibility for their performance at work.

但是，无论他们的工作角色或对自我管理的感受如何，所有员工都要承担责任 —— 被要求对自己的工作表现负责。

Georgina(乔治娜)

Meaning they take can the credit for when things go well…

这意味着当事情进展顺利时，他们可以把功劳归功于......

Neil(尼尔)

…but have nobody to hide behind when things go badly!

…但是当事情变得糟糕时，没有人可以躲在后面！

Georgina(乔治娜)

That’s all from us today, but remember to join us again soon for more topical discussion and related vocabulary here at 6 Minute English from BBC Learning English.

这就是我们今天的全部内容，但请记得很快再次加入我们，在 BBC Learning English 的六分钟英语中进行更多主题讨论和相关词汇。

Neil(尼尔)

Bye for now.

再见。

Georgina(乔治娜)

Bye.

再见。