I'm Whitney Pennington Rodgers. I'm TED's current affairs curator. And the guest who's joining us now is not only a psychologically wise leader himself. But he looks to develop psychologically wise leaders to put them out into the world. From 2001 to 2018, he was the CEO and chairman of American Express.

我是惠特尼·彭宁顿·罗杰斯。TED的时事策划人。我们今天的嘉宾不仅是一位颇具心灵智慧的领导者，而且希望为世界培养输出许许多多这样的领军人物。2001至2018年间，他在美国运通兼任董事长及首席运营官之职。

And now he is the managing director and chairman of General Catalyst, a venture capital firm which seeks to develop organizations that put out positive change into the world. He's also the cofounder of OneTen, which is a coalition of leading executives who have joined together to upskill, hire and advance one million Black Americans in 10 years. Please welcome Ken Chenault.Thank you so much for being here, Ken.

如今，他是General Catalyst的常务董事，兼董事长。这是一家风险投资公司，致力于发展培养能够为世界带来积极变化的组织机构。他还是OneTen的联合创始人之一，OneTen是一个由高层管理者组成的联盟，力争在10年间，培训、聘用一百万美国黑人，帮助其实现职业发展。请大家欢迎肯·钱纳特。感谢您的到来。

It's great to be here, Whitney. You have a quote that you often say: The role of a leader is to define reality and give hope. So, in this time that we're living in, with COVID and massive changes in the workforce, how do you think about this idea of change, and how does this quote apply to that? The question is, how can you give people concrete reasons, and also inspiration to be hopeful. And in uncertain times, I think what's very important is the leader has to be grounded in some core values.

很高兴来到这里。你常引用这样一句话：领导的职责是界定现实，给予希望。在我们生活的这个时代里，出现了新冠病毒，以及劳动人口的巨大变化，您对变革有何看法？这句引言又有何适用性？问题在于，你该如何具体阐释变化的缘由，同时激发人们的希望。我认为，在这动荡的年代里，非常重要的一点是，领导者必须以某些核心价值为立身之本。

Because, to me, what's most critical about leadership and leading in uncertain times. And I would emphasize that I think anyone at any level can be a leader, in their business, civic life, personal life, and what they have to recognize is if you want to lead, you have to be willing to serve. So you've got to have that servant leadership mentality. But what you have to do is stand for something.

因为，在缺乏确定性的年代里，有一点对领导层而言至关重要。我要强调的是，任何人在任何层面都可以是一位领导者，比如，在自己的业务活动中，在市井生活以及个人生活中，等等。领导者必须认识到，如果自己想要领导别人，就必须乐于为人服务。所以，你必须具有公仆意识。你要成为某种价值观的代表。

And organizations are guided by values and behaviors.That's the way you're creating a culture. And so in a time of uncertainty, what do you need to do? One is you need to give people context. What's happening?You can admit that you're anxious, that there are reasons, in fact, to be nervous. But what's important is you need to emphasize to people the reasons why you think that we can get to the other side.

通过价值观和行为表现来引导组织机构。这正是创造企业文化的方式。在缺乏确定性的年代里，你需要做些什么呢？一是要把当前的情况背景向人们交代清楚。解释目前出现的状况。你可以承认自己很焦虑，事实上，令人紧张的原因很多。然而重要的是，你要向人们强调我们为何可以渡过难关。

Could you talk a little bit about your work now and what is General Catalyst, what are you looking to do with that organization? General Catalyst is a venture capital firm. And we're very focused on building companies. What's important is the philosophy of General Catalyst, which brings a level of intentionality, which is we want to invest in powerful, positive change that will endure.

您可以谈谈您现在的工作吗？General Catalyst是一家怎样的机构？您打算借此做些什么？General Catalyst是一家风险投资公司。关注于企业创建。General Catalyst的企业哲学十分重要，它让公司具有了目的性，我们的投资对象是那些具有持久性的、积极有力的变革举措。

So our view is, the paradigm, sometimes, that's presented, which is you have to choose between profits, investment returns and social good. And we believe that's a false choice. That, in fact, technology should be a great enabler. But the reality is: What's the intention? I love this idea of responsible innovation.And I'm interested to know what the impetus was for you to really focus in this space.

有这样一种范式，有时体现为：你必须在利润、投资回报和社会利益之间做出选择。我们认为这选择是虚假的。其实，技术应该成为一股强大的推动力。但是现实是，技术发展的意图是为什么？我很喜欢责任型创新这个理念，很想知道是什么促使您开始真正关注这个领域的。

Were you not seeing enough of this happening? So I would say there were several reasons. One is, as I decided in stepping down from American Express, of: What would I do next? One, it was very clear to me from all of my experiences is that technology was the great enabler, and could be. But I thought we needed to have a force that was acting in a more responsible way. I also frankly thought that technology was not diverse enough, when I looked at the whole sector of technology and venture capital and private equity.

您当时是否觉得这样的创新还不够多？当时有几个原因。一是，当我决定从美国运通卸任时，我考虑到，接下来该做些什么？就我的全部经历而言，有一点很清楚：技术曾经是，而且仍然可以成为，一股巨大的推动力。我认为，我们需要一种力量，一种更负责任的力量。坦率而言，在审视过整个技术、风险投资、私人股权投资等领域后，我认为，技术领域缺乏多样性。

But what was really attractive to me was that my partners believed very strongly in this notion of responsible innovation. And they were willing to do what it takes to embrace it. And let me be clear, we're in the early stages of this. But one of the things I'm very proud of, for example, is what we've been able to do in health care, where we're actually partnering with health care systems. So, we're partnering with nonprofit entities.

但是真正吸引我的，是合伙人的坚定信念，他们对责任型创新这一理念深信不疑，而且为了推行这个理念，愿意尽其所能。我要明确一点，我们现在仍处在初期阶段。但是，有很多事令我感到非常骄傲，比如，在医疗保健领域里的表现，我们正在与医疗保健系统建立切切实实的合作关系。我们与各种非营利机构合作。

And our objective is not to disrupt and blow up the health care system, it's to innovate and transform the health care system as a partner. And so it's recognizing that our objective in health care is to provide high-quality, lower-cost health care to all segments. And technology can be a great enabler in doing that. And in addition to that, it's not an either-or, we believe that we're going to generate very attractive returns,which is important if we're building enduring businesses. This idea of putting people first as you're developing your technology.

但是我们的目标不是扰乱破坏医疗保健系统，而是将其视为合作伙伴，对其进行创新、改造。因此，我们认识到自己在医疗保健领域内的目标是为社会各个阶层提供高质量、低成本的医疗保健服务。而科学技术则是实现这一目标的巨大推动力。此外，这并不是一个非此即彼的选择我们相信，自己可以创造出颇具吸引力的回报，若要建立持久性商业，回报是非常重要的。其理念是，在技术开发时，要以人为本。

But it's not just about people. You're thinking about responsibility in terms of the environment, responsibilities to communities. Could you talk more about that?What's critical here, fundamentally, what I have always believed and certainly have articulated over the last 30 years, is companies exist because society allows us to exist. And so we have a responsibility to society. When we're developing products and services, shouldn't we think about who is in, who are we serving,and who might be negatively impacted by a product or service that we're offering.

但是，其关注的并不仅仅是人。你们还考虑到了对环境、对社会群体的责任。您能就此展开谈谈吗？有一点至关重要。我在过去30年里始终坚信，而且已明确表明，从根本上讲，公司企业能够生存，乃是社会使然。我们因此担负着社会责任。我们在设计开发产品服务时，难道不该想想，自己在为谁服务吗？想想有谁会因为我们所提供的产品服务而受到负面影响？

As we're building companies, let's start at the beginning and say: How do we build a more diverse workforce in that company? How are we thinking about the environment? So what's very important is, we can do a form, if you will, of social due diligence, side by side with the financial due diligence. But what's important is, as we're building companies today, let's have a broader mindset. Let's have a higher level of intentionality.

公司成立之初，就让我们来想一想，如何构建一个更具多样性的员工团体？我们该如何看待环境问题？所以非常重要的一点是我们经营的公司在进行财务尽职调查的同时，还要进行社会尽职调查，如果可以这么说的话。但是，重要的是，如今创办公司，要有更宽泛的思维模式，更高层次的意向性。

And no one, I think, most people, obviously, there's some exceptions, start off building a company, saying:I want to build a company that will hurt people.Right. But that's not enough. What you've got to say is: My intention is to build a company that will address the following set of issues. And actually, I want to, from the beginning, build a company that will have a positive impact on society, as well as generate attractive economics. Now that's simple. But it is hard. And people need guidance. People need the tools.

我认为，除了一些显然的特例之外，没人会着手会开办一家公司，然后说，我要开一家害人的公司。没错。但是，这还不够。你还要表明，我意在创立一家能够解决以下问题的公司。实际上，我从一开始就想建立一家对社会有积极影响，同时在经济产出上具有吸引力的公司。这很简单。但同时又很艰难。人们需要指导，需要工具。

And that's what we're trying to do with responsible innovation. I'd like to pivot for a second to another organization that you're championing, that's really important to you, which is OneTen. You're the cofounder of this initiative that looks to put more Black Americans into sustainable careers. Tell us a little bit about how OneTen came about. So OneTen came about literally the day after the murder of George Floyd.

这正是我们试图为责任型创新企业提供的帮助。我想暂时转向您扶植的另一家机构。这家机构对您非常重要，它就是OneTen。您是这一新举措的联合发起人，其目的是让更多的美国黑人获得持久性职业。给我们讲讲OneTen是怎么诞生的。OneTen是在乔治·弗洛伊德被杀后的第二天诞生的。

And Ken Frazier, who was a former CEO of Merck, is still executive chairman of Merck, but is also now chairman of Healthcare Assurance Initiatives for General Catalyst.Obviously, we were devastated about what happened.And back to defining reality and giving hope, we said:The reality of the situation is that Black Americans who do not have a college degree are a segment of our population that we need to address in a more comprehensive way.

肯·弗雷泽，他是默克药厂的前任首席执行官，现在担任默克的执行董事长，同时在General Catalyst担任医疗保障计划的董事长。我们俩显然为所发生的事情感到震惊。回到前面提到的，界定现实，给予希望这个话题上来，我们认为，现实情况是，没有高等学历的美国黑人是我们需要全面应对的一个群体。

And what we said is we want to do something that is really impactful and enduring. And we think the private sector, particularly large companies, need to take a more active role. And so we talked about what we could do. If you look at the facts, 80 percent of the jobs 60,000 dollars and above in companies require a four-year college degree. Now the reality is, that a substantial majority of those jobs do not require a college degree. And so, it serves.

我们谈到要做一些真正具有影响力和持久性的事。我们认为私营部门，尤其是大公司，需要发挥更加积极的作用。于是我们就自己力所能及的事展开了讨论。事实表明，80%薪水超过6万美元的公司职位要求任职者有4年制本科学历。而实际情况是，这些工作中的绝大部分并不需要大学学位。所以，这个制度服务于——

You talk about structural, systemic racism. What happens is it just knocks out a large population. And the reality is skills-first is what we should be focused on. And I want to be clear. I want as many people to go to college as can go to college. But to be successful, to have a family-sustaining job, should not mean that you have to go to college. And so what we decided is we wanted companies to embrace that. We had 60 companies sign up with hard financial commitments and a commitment to jobs.

你所提到的结构性、系统性种族主义。现实情况就是一大批人被淘汰出局。而技术第一才是我们应当关注的事实。我想要明确一点，我希望尽可能多的人上大学。但是，取得成功，有一份足以养家糊口的工作，并不意味着你必须上大学。所以，我们决意要让众多公司欣然接受这一现实。有60家公司与我们签署了严格的财政及工作承诺。

And here's what I think is exciting, Wendy, is that people are recognizing. Because you're looking at the jobs. They're saying: Well, a lot of these jobs don't require a college degree. And so here we have an initiative that is geared to Black Americans. But at the end of the day, it's going to end up benefiting all Americans. Because the jobs, the specifications, the requirements are going to change. So in our society, where we have a win-loss mentality, by focusing on this issue, we actually have opened the aperture of opportunity for everyone.

惠特尼，我认为，令人兴奋的是，人们在审视过这些工作岗位后，开始认识到，嗯，很多工作并不需要大学学历。于是，我们开启了一项针对美国黑人的新举措。但是归根结底，这将有益于所有美国人。因为工作、专业技能、岗位要求都将放生变化。我们所处的社会充满了非赢即输的心态，所以，在这样的社会里，关注于这一问题，实际上是为每个人打开了机会之门。

So we are making progress. And I really think that our objective is, in 10 years, to have created a million family-sustaining jobs. So OneTen is one million jobs in 10 years. In 10 years. You know, simple, objective, not easy, right? Because part of what we're doing is the challenge of matching supply and demand, the skilling, the reskilling, all of that, that has to take place. The job supply network is very fragmented. So we've got to put that together. So what I think you're seeing is I look at OneTen. That's a start-up. But we are mission-driven.

我们正在不断发展进步。我确实认为，我们的目标是在今后10年里，创造100万足以让人养家糊口的工作机会。所以，OneTen是指10年创造100万工作岗位。10年内。简单、客观。但是并不容易，不是吗？因为我们所做的部分工作是面对供需平衡的挑战，培训、新技能培训，所有这些工作都需要展开。就业网络异常零散，所以我们必须对它加以整合。我想在你眼里，OneTen只是一家初创公司。但是我们以使命。

We are outcome-driven. And we're going to achieve that objective. That feels like a great place to end. Thank you so much, Ken, for sharing all of this insight and wisdom. I feel like I've learned so much. I know that everyone watching has probably learned a lot, too. Thank you so much. I enjoyed the conversation. Thank you.

以效果为向导，而且终将实现这一目标。这似乎是结束谈话的恰当时机。肯，非常感谢您与我们分享的这些洞见和智慧。我觉得自己从中学到了很多。观众们大概也学到了不少东西。非常感谢。这是一次令人愉快的谈话。谢谢。